AI and the Future of Fiction: Insights from Hilary Mason

In this engaging podcast episode, Motley Fool host Rich Lumelleau and renowned data scientist Hilary Mason delve into:

• How Hidden Door, her innovative company, leverages generative AI to transform any fictional work into an immersive online social roleplaying game.
• An exploration of whether Napster serves as a fair comparison to current models.
• Insights into what the future of storytelling may hold.

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A comprehensive transcript is provided below.

This podcast episode was recorded on July 13, 2025.

Hilary Mason: The landscape of entertainment is evolving, and the origin of ideas is becoming less significant.

Dan Boyd: That’s the voice of Hilary Mason, the co-founder and CEO of Hidden Door. Their groundbreaking approach utilizes generative AI to transform any piece of fiction into a captivating online social role-playing game. Our host, Rich Lumelleau, engages with Mason to unpack the intricacies of this innovative approach, including their adaptation of Pride and Prejudice and the intriguing parallels to Napster.

Rich Lumelleau: Let’s dive right into the present moment. As mentioned earlier, you’re the CEO and co-founder of Hidden Door. Can you tell us more about this venture, the thought process behind its inception, its core functions, and your role within the company?

Hilary Mason: Absolutely. At Hidden Door, our mission is to collaborate with creators who build immersive worlds through various mediums such as movies, books, TV shows, or online communities. We harness the incredible energy that goes into world-building and create opportunities for fans to engage in role-playing within those worlds. Utilizing AI and machine learning, we empower fans to create their own characters and craft unique narratives, all while adhering to the established rules of the original intellectual property. Our goal is to allow fans to explore the worlds they love, providing a platform for creativity and adventure. Personally, I often find myself bursting with ideas after finishing a book, eager to explore various plotlines or unexplored corners of the story’s universe. This venture is about amplifying that excitement for both the creators and their audiences. However, the journey to get here has been quite fascinating and complex.

Rich Lumelleau: I’m eager to hear more about that journey. Please share!

Hilary Mason: To summarize my background, I’ve been deeply involved in the realm of technology, particularly in areas now encompassed by the term generative AI, for quite some time. My academic journey included graduate studies in machine learning, and I served as a computer science professor. While I realized my teaching skills were average, my true passion lay in creating and developing products that serve people’s needs. My career took a turn when I returned to New York City, where I joined a budding company called Bitly, which was pioneering the concept of short links for social media before it became mainstream. My position as Chief Scientist allowed me the freedom to innovate without the constraints of traditional responsibilities, focusing instead on identifying potential business opportunities from our data. This role sparked my interest in language modeling, leading to explorations of how people interacted with content globally across social platforms.

In 2014, I founded a company named Fast Forward Labs, where our inaugural project revolved around language generation. We developed a prototype capable of crafting real estate advertisements from structured data, such as “two-bedroom apartment near the park,” and transforming it into engaging copy like, “This sun-drenched home near transit will be your family’s cherished escape.” This experience opened my eyes to the immense potential and challenges associated with text generation and transformation. After several developments, Cloudera acquired Fast Forward Labs, where we created scalable enterprise applications utilizing embeddings and text modeling techniques. Throughout this journey, I kept contemplating the limitations of traditional enterprise environments and how they could be assets in storytelling. Ultimately, I co-founded Hidden Door with Matt Brandwein five years ago, driven by the belief that we were standing at the forefront of a technological revolution, well before the era of ChatGPT. Our goal was to explore the possibilities of building a product that could redefine storytelling and community engagement. Fast forward to today, and we have launched our product in Early Access. Anyone interested can visit hiddendoor.co to sign up for the waitlist and join in on this exciting adventure!

Rich Lumelleau: If I were to finish reading a captivating book and thought, “I want to elevate this experience further,” how would I approach you at Hidden Door? Do I present my idea directly, or would I need to collaborate with the original author or creator?

Hilary Mason: Our process involves collaborating directly with the authors and creators. We establish formal agreements with them to develop games set in their universes. Our intention is to approach this with utmost respect, adding value for the creators while fostering greater engagement among their communities and fans. This strategic direction ensures that for every world where we have a partnership, players can join in, create their own characters, and share their unique stories, which can then inspire others to build upon.

Rich Lumelleau: It sounds like, from the perspective of the author or creator, this approach offers a unique opportunity for direct engagement with their audience while potentially creating an additional revenue stream.

Hilary Mason: Precisely! That’s our pitch. We aim to keep fans actively involved and ensure we honor all the established rules of the original universe. Our platform transcends being merely an LLM wrapper; it provides fans with a legitimate avenue for engagement that is both creative and fulfilling.

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Rich Lumelleau: Clearly, Hidden Door is bridging the gap between storytelling, authors, and creators through the innovative lens of AI.

Hilary Mason: Absolutely.

Rich Lumelleau: Historically, the realms of storytelling and technology haven’t always been viewed as complementary. While we understand the value proposition for authors, do you encounter resistance from those who may feel protective of their work?

Hilary Mason: Yes, I frequently engage with skeptics. Their concerns are valid. The prevailing sentiment in the market often suggests that authors are becoming obsolete and that tools like ChatGPT can simply generate the next novel. However, this notion is fundamentally flawed and not aligned with what truly matters in storytelling. Many skeptics stem from the fact that large language models have been trained on authors’ works without their consent or knowledge. As someone who has authored a book or two, I recognize the ethical implications of such practices, especially when it comes to the treatment of creative content. There are real ethical and principled reasons for authors to be wary, especially given how many companies operate within this space. Our approach at Hidden Door is significantly different, focusing on ethical practices and transparency in our collaborations.

Rich Lumelleau: That makes sense.

Hilary Mason: It’s crucial to differentiate between the technology itself and the sociotechnical relationships we build around it. We must consider our values and ensure that the technology we create aligns with those values. Moreover, it’s essential to address the origins of our data and be upfront about how we utilize it. I personally have reservations about certain aspects of the generative AI market, and I believe it has veered off course. However, through our work at Hidden Door, we strive to exemplify a respectful and aligned approach that benefits both creators and audiences financially and ethically. Interestingly, this scenario reminds me of the emergence of Napster about 25 years ago. It presented an incredible opportunity to foster community and access music, albeit with the significant downside that musicians weren’t compensated fairly. While users gained extensive music libraries, creators like the Doobie Brothers saw none of the benefits. We’ve taken that model and restructured it to ensure that creators receive appropriate compensation.

Hilary Mason: While I agree that the comparison is valid, I also recall how exciting Napster was from a consumer perspective. It offered access to any song imaginable, including rare recordings of live shows. Unfortunately, we currently lack a similar model where musicians are adequately compensated for their work. This situation illustrates how not to architect an industry in the face of technological shifts, and we hope to do better this time around.

Rich Lumelleau: Exactly! It seems like you’ve managed to harness that brilliant concept while ensuring that creators benefit from it.

Hilary Mason: We are making strides in that direction, and I believe it’s the right approach. Regardless of whether we figure it out or another entity does, we need more innovators in the market who are dedicated to building businesses that exemplify these principles.

Rich Lumelleau: What has surprised you most about establishing a company focused on generative storytelling?

Hilary Mason: The most unexpected revelation has been the types of stories that resonate with our players. Despite spending considerable time in the gaming industry, I encountered a prevailing belief that generative AI could create infinite gaming experiences. However, our research has shown that players do not desire that at all. What they truly seek is a personalized character and adventure, along with shared experiences that foster conversation and interaction. Our players typically fall outside the traditional gaming demographic; they are avid readers and viewers who consider media a vital aspect of their social lives. I fit this description as well—I often discuss books with friends to discover what I should read next. For this audience, the allure of endless solitary stories pales in comparison to the value of shared moments and narratives. Having common experiences, such as asking each other, “How did you meet Mr. Darcy in Pride and Prejudice?” or, “Did you get him to be a vampire?” is what truly matters. This insight was surprising, as much of the energy in the industry is focused on creating limitless game worlds, which, in reality, are not as significant as the moments we share.

Rich Lumelleau: Understood. Has Hidden Door identified whether books, shows, or movies generate the most interest and engagement among your audience?

Hilary Mason: Interestingly, we see strong engagement across all formats. We were fortunate to adapt The Crow graphic novel, coinciding with the film’s release last summer, and that garnered a lot of interest. Additionally, our adaptation of Pride and Prejudice, a timeless classic, continues to captivate audiences. I can’t definitively say that one format surpasses the others in terms of engagement. In fact, I believe that one of the most exciting implications of this technology is its potential to blur the lines between the publishing, gaming, and film industries. Each of these sectors has been structured around the unique demands of producing their respective artifacts, yet this technology excels at adapting content across formats. While it’s not inherently creative, it can generate intriguing results when guided by a creator’s vision. Though you didn’t ask for my long-term perspective, I felt compelled to share.

Rich Lumelleau: I appreciate that!

Hilary Mason: Ultimately, I believe the origin of creativity is becoming increasingly irrelevant. There are countless individuals with remarkable world-building skills who have yet to publish their stories or create formal narratives, but they have the potential to build dedicated audiences around their concepts. This transformation suggests that the landscape of entertainment will look distinctly different, where the genesis of ideas becomes less of a focus.

Dan Boyd: As always, please note that individuals featured on this program may have vested interests in the stocks discussed. The Motley Fool may have official recommendations for or against these stocks. Therefore, do not make any buying or selling decisions based solely on the content you hear. All personal finance discussions adhere to Motley Fool editorial standards and are not endorsed by advertisers. Sponsored content is provided for informational purposes. To access our complete advertising disclosures, please refer to our show notes. That wraps up today’s episode. We look forward to seeing you tomorrow.